Episode 4: D*mmit it’s a musical with Finola Southgate
Brian and Zoe speak to Finola Southgate about her experience with making musicals from song cycles and why you should always start with the story before writing the songs.
Finola is a British songwriter credited with vocals and keys on the 2017 Monroes album and her 2021 Sister Session EP. Finola and Rosie Dart wrote We’ll Have Nun Of It, which was featured at the Edinburgh Fringe and had a 2-week run at The Other Palace in London. The show is an actor-musician piece, which follows the story of four friends navigating their final year at St Anne’s convent school. Set in 1967, it explores themes of Irish emigration, sexuality and faith with a folk-rock soundtrack.
From 2022 to 2025, Finola lived in Brussels where she co-founded the Brussels Musical Creatives and co-wrote Knocked with, among others, Zoe. She also directed Knocked’s first run.
Finola shares her insights into original forms of musical theatre, the benefits of collaborations and starting small.
The episode features clips from her songs Vines, Not Blinded and Ghost, with authorisation. Listen to her album on Spotify and Apple Music. The theme for our show was written by Brian Strohmetz.
If you enjoyed our show, make sure to rate and review it and subscribe to receive our next episodes.
Find us on Instagram @MakingaMusicalPod and @BrianStrohmetzMusic. Finola is @finola.music. And if you like the show, consider supporting us on Patreon.
Episode transcript
Episode 4 Finola
Fri, Dec 19, 2025 6:09PM • 1:04:50
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
musical theater, songwriting, collaboration, creative process, audition season, musical performance, song cycle, storytelling, community theater, musical development, creative invigoration, musical education, songwriting challenges, musical inspiration, creative journey, Hairspray, film soundtrack, thesis song, end credits, musical projects, future collaboration, podcast subscription, rating and review, holiday break, Instagram, Patreon, Brian Stromitz, Zoe Ed York, making a musical.
SPEAKERS
Finola, Zoe, Brian, Speaker 2, Speaker 1, Music
Brian 00:02
Hello everyone, and welcome to Making a Musical, a podcast about a writer's journey from blank page to Broadway. Well, maybe one day, but you know what we are now, one day closer. So I guess we're doing it. We're doing the thing. I'm your host, Brian strometz, and today is a very special day, because we have our second guest on this episode. But more importantly than our second guest, we are here with the amazing and fantabulous Zoe de York, how you doing Zoe?
Zoe 00:28
I'm good. Brian, how are you?
Brian 00:29
Oh, I'm fantastic. I'm ready for this guest.
Zoe 00:31
Yes, let's go. I'm really, really glad we're back for this episode, because we'll be talking to my knocked co creator, FinolA Southgate, who's a phenomenal Brit that I'm really glad you're going to get to know better.
Brian 00:43
I'm excited to get to know all these people from across the pond. As you would say.
Zoe 00:48
Hey Brian, before we get started, what's going on with you right now?
Brian 00:51
We're in the middle of audition season for our show Charlie and Chocolate Factory at school, which I'm very excited about. And they've been going well, we have had a huge turnout of kids for both cast and crew, which is super exciting.
Zoe 01:03
Nice.
Brian 01:03
But otherwise, jumping off of our last episode, where we talked about finding time to write and all of that that episode, and just having a little more time in my life, because some things ended up were going on, I have been incredibly creatively invigorated since then.
Zoe 01:17
Fantastic.
Brian 01:18
So I think our little therapy session that we had, and our listeners came along with really helped me. So I've been writing a lot more of our I put out a new arrangement since then for both band and orchestra of video game music, which was fun to do. And Jess and I are in full swing now. Of writing new songs for our new show.
Zoe 01:36
You are.
Brian 01:36
So I'm I'm creatively invigorated, and I'm riding the wave. You know, it ebbs and flows, like we talked about.
Zoe 01:42
Yeah, you've gotta ride it.
Brian 01:43
Thank you for listening to me complain about time, and thank you to our listeners for listening to us complain about time. And,
Zoe 01:50
Of course.
Brian 01:50
be frustrated. But it's such a huge part of the process.
Zoe 01:53
It is a huge part of the process. Trying to, you know, be consistent is so difficult when you've got so many other things going on.
Brian 02:01
It is, it is, how are you doing?
Zoe 02:03
I'm good. We'll get into this in the next episode, I think. But I'm just back from my trip to the States where I went Coast hopping from from New York to the Pacific Northwest. It was fantastic. I am still, you know what? My body clock has stayed somewhere in between. I'm gonna say Texas and Minnesota. I'm not. I'm not back in Brussels right now. It's been, it's been a struggle. So yeah, with regards to that, I haven't, I haven't done much since I've come back. Now, having said that, I did have a really productive time in the States, because I tracked a guitar for one of our friends, common friends song, and I started writing a song about, of all things. We wrote a song about jet lag with another friend. So that's, that's really what's been going on with me. I've just been traveling and making music with people, which is an amazing time.
Brian 02:51
Yeah, that's like the best way to live your life.
Zoe 02:54
It is, yeah.
Brian 02:54
Zo is out here living your best life, and I'm here for it.
Zoe 02:57
Yeah, I've changed the way I travel now that I have this music thing in my life is I want to travel to meet people and to make music with people. I don't really want to travel to do touristy stuff. It's been, it's been a life change for me to have this as an as an outlet next to my day job.
Brian 03:15
I love that.
Zoe 03:15
All right.
Brian 03:16
It was great catching up, but we've got an excellent guest.
Zoe 03:19
Indeed. Without further ado, let's go to our conversation with Finola.
Music 03:30
Tell me. Tell me you got something for me. Tell me something I can't believe. Give me an ounce of your sweet release.
Zoe 03:43
Finola was born in Reading England. Her musical education involved years of classical choirs, Irish folks, Soul band and musical theater. She's credited with vocals and keys in the Monroes for their 2017 eponymous album and sisters session in Wargrave 2021, Finola and Rosie Dart wrote, We'll have nun of it, which was featured at the Edinburgh Fringe and had a two week run at the Other Palace in London,
Brian 04:08
We'll have nun of it is an actor, musician piece which follows the story of four friends navigating their final year at St Anne's covenant school, set in 1967 it explores themes of Irish emigration, sexuality and faith with a folk rock soundtrack. In 2022, Finola moved to Brussels, where she cofounded the Brussels musical creatives and cowrote Knocked with, among others, our very own Zoe,
Zoe 04:31
Yay. I should add that she also directed our first run in 2024 I'm very excited to welcome Fin to the podcast. Hi Finn.
Brian 04:39
Welcome. Welcome.
Finola 04:39
Hello. Hi everyone. How are we doing?
Zoe 04:42
We're doing well
Brian 04:43
Doing lovely. How are you
Finola 04:44
I'm well. Thank you. Yeah, I'm all good. Sun shining here in London today, which is a joy.
Brian 04:49
Heard That's a rarity.
Finola 04:49
It is at the moment. Crikey, yeah, look. We'll get very excited. Lovely to see Zoe again, and lovely to meet Brian today.
Brian 04:56
It's lovely to meet you too.
Zoe 04:57
It's been a while. So for anybody listening, Fin moved back to London over the summer. Wasn't it
Finola 05:03
June? Yeah, mid June.
Zoe 05:05
And so we saw each other just last month, because you came back to Brussels to see the second run of Knocked and we saw each other for maybe 15 minutes because it was a crazy time. But we have this now. We can hang out and do a podcast.
Finola 05:18
Exactly. This is a reason. We'll use the podcast as an excuse, but really it's just so we can hang out.
Zoe 05:22
Always okay. The point of the podcast is to discuss how musical theater writing happens. And Brian and I are both writing for a musical theater as you know, but we have a day job, and this is pretty much your situation as well, and it has its own set of challenges and its own set of opportunities. So I wanted to talk to you about that. Before we do that, first, I'd like to talk about your roots and how your interest in music started.
Finola 05:49
Good question. Okay, so the roots. So I grew up in a tiny little village near Reading. And growing up, all my Saturdays were spent going to, like, a Saturday stage school. And at school, all my lunchtimes pretty much were spent doing some sort of music club or other. And then after school, often during the week, there would be some sort of music related thing. So I think growing up, music played a big role, and theater on the weekends. So being able to, you know, have my whole Saturday just dedicated to musical theater growing up was huge. It was a whole community of people I met. I got to do different shows growing up. One thing I will remember is, you know, Joseph and the Technicolor dream coat, yes, so they often did tours around the UK. And a classic thing, and I think this will be for many young people who have done some sort of stage school at some point, will have taken part and been a member of the choir. I think I did it three times, so that's just an example of the musical theater side. And then outside of that, I was really lucky that I had the opportunity to do different styles. So I did a classical choir just my local village one, because my piano teacher ran it. And I loved that, because it introduced me to, you know, all these chorales, Mozart, Bach, you name it, which was just a bit different from the musical theater I was doing at the weekend. And on top of that, having things like Soul band at school. So I remember doing, I can't remember, maybe a Wednesday lunchtime. I don't know why that sticks in my mind, but then that was an entry into a different type of music. So being able to explore these different genres growing up, both as a performer, but also, you know, you learn the music through performing it. So a lot of focus, I would say, growing up was much more on performance. I studied music GCSE. So that's your exams you do when you're 16, and also a level. So that's the exams just before you go to university. And they kind of, you decide three or four that you're going to do, and they decide, to an extent, your pathway for the rest of your life, which is a huge decision to make at that age. Yeah. And I chose music as one of mine, and part of that at GCSE and A level was composition. So through those two studies, I was able to start, you know, writing and doing more. And I think I wrote my first song when I was, like, 15 or something. So that's a very, maybe long winded answer to the question of my roots, but it gives you kind of an overview of the different things I got involved in. And I think most of it was just enjoying it, and the consistency of it, having it as part of my routine was so important.
Zoe 08:15
Yeah, I like the answer you just gave because it sort of colors what I know to be your composition style, which is very diverse.
Brian 08:16
So just because I think it's a cultural difference. So what is a stage school? Is it like a formal school, or is it like a community theater group?
Finola 08:30
There's different levels of it. So some are schools, and they're actual schools that people attend as part of the you know your classic you go to school, but it's a performing arts school, so you might do more performing art related or a particular art form related sessions as part of your school life. This was very separate to that. So this was just my Saturday, separate from my, let's say normal schooling was somewhere I went to in reading area with others that were really interested in it. So it was more like a club, but a whole day spent at the club.
Brian 09:02
Okay, cool.
Zoe 09:03
Can we talk about college or university? I don't know what?
Finola 09:06
Yeah.
Zoe 09:06
I never know what word to use, because America uses College, and Europe usually use University. Can you talk about your your college slash university experience?
Finola 09:15
Yes. So I would, I would use the word University.
Zoe 09:18
Yes!
Finola 09:18
And they gave a triumph. I studied languages. I didn't study music. I studied French and Spanish at university. I studied up at a university called Durham in the north of England, near Newcastle, and I loved my experience there. I was so lucky going there, because there was a real focus on your study. Is one part of it, but all of the extracurriculars you can do is a major part of the whole experience. And the theater scene was, it's wild, like, I think, back of what we had as opportunities and things to do there, yeah, which was pretty lucky. And of course, the beauty of it at that stage, when it's student, you can kind of play around a bit more. There's not as much pressure.
Zoe 09:59
Yeah.
Finola 09:59
It doesn't have to be commercially viable in the same sense as when you leave. And you also had colleges, which are basically in your first year you lived in that environment, a bit like a house system, that you'd belong to a house as part of your experience.
Zoe 10:15
I was going to ask if you just went Harry Potter on us.
Finola 10:18
It is that kind of idea.
Brian 10:20
I was gonna say, as an American, this is all just all very Harry Potter.
Finola 10:24
What is going on?
Brian 10:26
That is our UK school experiences, Harry Potter,
Finola 10:30
And so with the college system. What was cool about it as well, which I think on a kind of micro level, was maybe what it was like outside as well. You had the college also had their own theater group often, and would put shows on. So my first year I did the producers played, what's her name? I can't remember. There's one female part.
Brian 10:51
Ulla Inga Hansen Benson Yansen Tallen Hallen Svaden Swansson Bloom.
Finola 10:52
Perfect
Brian 10:52
And that's just her first name. What's her last name? We don't have the time.
Finola 10:54
Brian, you should have done it. You're amazing.
Brian 10:58
That is one of like, my number one show. It's a tied number one show for me. So I can sit here and quote it. I have the annotated libretto behind me by Mel Brooks and Tom Meehan so...
Finola 11:08
Amazing.
Brian 11:08
One could say I have a problem.
Finola 11:10
Better come to London and come see it, then.
Brian 11:12
I'd love to I've heard good things about this revival.
Finola 11:14
There we go. So I did that in first year, and then in my third year, I got to go study abroad, or work abroad, whatever, as part of the year abroad in it. And the first place I went to was Bogota in Colombia. And while I was there, also learning Spanish. But I got to choose what I would study at the university. And I thought, well, I don't have to just do the very academic focus linked back to my my actual studies. So I did jazz, ensemble music production, classical singing, as well as some other ones. But that was a huge entry for me into a world of a production, so seeing how all these different things can come together, and learning more about it, and also singing like actually more training related things. And then the Jazz was a lot more understanding chords, understanding harmony, working in a group, which was then a huge experience. Coming back in into my final year, I'd had much more of an in depth experience of that musical world, and also being able to explore with writing, because once you've got that understanding of the harmony and the chords, and an exposure to, you know, your standards, it really elevated my understanding of, okay, when I'm now going back to writing my songs, this is all that knowledge I can take with me, and then coming back, really, which might lead into the the none of it chat is in the final months of the university, my college. So again, the kind of little house system said, look for our final show. We want to put on a new work. So submit your your ideas, and then we will select one from that. So there I was thinking, Okay, I've got my finals coming up. Got a busy couple of months on the way. It's a really good idea now to submit something for this, which you know, if it happens, could take up a very large amount of my time. It's always the way it goes, always the way. And I've been writing loads of songs. So being in that kind of creative mindset, I just often would write songs, piano and vocals, play around on Garage Band, and spent loads of my time just writing ideas into garage band on my year abroad as well, because something to do. And I had a couple of songs and a loose idea, and I thought, well, if I don't do it now, I would never know if this would ever have become anything. And that was the beginning. That was, honestly the beginning. It was a case of, why not put it into the ether, see what comes back. If it doesn't happen, I might get some feedback on the idea if it does happen, then that would be a really cool way for me to finish, you know, round off this experience I've had here, right?
Zoe 11:14
100% Yeah, and live with the fact, well, I don't know. I'm a people pleaser, so I don't really live well with
Finola 11:14
Me too. Don't worry. And it's really scary.
Zoe 12:00
It is.
Finola 12:00
Right? It's not a thing at the time when you're like, okay, my self esteem is 2,000,000% nothing's gonna knock me. It's really scary. You've got to kind of accept that what you're going to put out there people might not like
Zoe 12:06
I don't know about Brian, but I can that I that is something I completely relate to, and I feel like any or most of the experience I've had with music writing or musical theater writing is essentially me saying, what's the worst that can happen, putting it out in the ether, and then someone grabs onto it and says, Oh, let's do something. And that's the best way for you to approach it, because I'm, you know, lucky enough that I haven't had that experience too much, but most times you just hear someone say, I'm not really interested, and that's fine, but taking that first step and actually making it happen is probably the best feeling. So it's been a journey of understanding that you don't have to be a people pleaser to everybody. People might not like you, and that's fine. I had a feeling.
Brian 13:20
This is how we keep therapists in business.
Zoe 13:24
Yeah Well, so let's talk about Nun of it was that your first experience writing a show?
Finola 14:53
Writing a show, yes, and actually, Nun of it began as a song cycle.
Zoe 14:57
Of course, it did.
Finola 14:58
And I have many thoughts of about this, and my my classic way. So Zoe will know this. But Brian a bit of an insight. I have thought in my mind. Do you know what? I see this as a song cycle? I see it as a collection of songs, and then, lo and behold, time and time again, it goes on, and I'm like, God damn it, it's a musical. Like it needs the story. And again, my big learning, and this will probably feature again throughout this call, is the biggest thing I have learned through my experience. Because I'm a songwriter, I'd say first before the story comes naturally. As much start with the story. Always, always, always, always, start with the story. You can have a song that spurs the story and unravels it as it goes. But having that framework in place would have saved for Knocked as well, and also for Nun of it, a lot of time,
Brian 15:49
I'm sure.
Zoe 15:49
Yeah,
Finola 15:49
Yeah.
Zoe 15:50
We discussed this in our first episode, and I said to Brian, you know, start with the story is, is basically the lesson we all took from from Knocked and you did from Nun of it, because otherwise you're just trying to fit your story around songs, and it doesn't really work. And Brian had the very good insight of saying, Do you remember what you said, Brian?
Finola 16:08
It was great, though that's the key thing.
Brian 16:08
I don't. I'm sure it's the pearl of wisdom. So You're welcome.
Zoe 16:15
It is. Brian said, you've just described the problem with every jukebox musical.
Brian 16:18
Oh, yeah,
Finola 16:19
Right?
Zoe 16:19
Yeah.
Finola 16:20
And that's, that's the reality. And I think because I would start with some of these things with that mindset of, I've got these songs, I want to put it into a work, and it can work within the song cycle concept, because there you're exploring a theme, you're exploring these ideas. But I think also, to an extent, if you think commercially, if you think around, okay, who would come and see this? I'd say currently, the appeal for an audience, if they hear musical, it's a lot easier to connect with than song cycle. It's just not as much as known.
Zoe 16:47
Have you ever really written for a song cycle? Or have all your song cycles turned into musicals?
Finola 16:53
Good question. I think at the beginning, before I wrote Nun of it, years and years before, when I was like, Oh, this is cool. I love the notion of writing musical theater. One of my dreams at one stage was to like, do the musical theater translations, because I did languages and love musical theater, and I thought that world was fascinating. I loved Les Mis growing up, but the French original version. If you've not heard it, go listen to it. It's unbelievable. I think it's you see why it's the original version.
Brian 17:18
I've never heard the French version.
Zoe 17:19
You haven't?
Finola 17:21
It's so good. But that was kind of a thinking. So I grew up, and I remember I would sometimes come up with a mini story, like your micro stories, right, that you have within the macro of music school, but your mini story, and I was like, I want to write a song about that as an exercise, or just to explore it. And I think for me, in a way, the song cycle concept is quite a nice system of kick starting thinking about what your story could be, because when we think about musicals and what you're trying to do, what's the message you're trying to share, what's the world you're trying to create? There's something in that you maybe write a song, it might not end up in the musical, but it allows you to explore it. Because I also think there's such a commitment to say, I'm going to write this whole musical before you kind of tested the waters and the ground a bit. And I think that's where there's sometimes quite a use of the song cycle aspect, because it means you can take a step back before you commit to that. I commit to this story, I commit to this idea. I know that there's material in it. So I do think there's benefit to both. I just think it's going in with the concept of, like, okay, longer term, the project I would like to have is a musical, right? And accepting that, but allowing the space to explore before you fully commit. And it could be, you have your one song, right? You've written one song, and that's been like, Ah, I can see this and this character, and this is their story. More to say is just don't write all the songs and then be like, I still don't know what the story is, because then it gets really hard.
Zoe 18:44
Is there a space for song cycles in London? Like, if you had to test the waters, would you know? You know how to?
Finola 18:51
I think there is a space. I think it's a lot easier if it's known or if it's a known composer, right? Because it carries the weight of it. So songs for New World was on recently and it sold out.
Brian 19:01
Yeah.
Finola 19:02
Right? But it's also you have the star power of the people that are in it.
Brian 19:05
Yeah, that's the most commercially viable song cycle I can think of that's done frequently.
Finola 19:09
Yeah, because, because it's well known, right? I think, in a way, in the world of Spotify and all these streaming platforms and tick tock, whatever it might be, actually, a song cycle could do really well if you have the following of the sound, right, of the songs that people really want that because what you can't have the following on, I don't think in the same way as that whole story or I'm going because I like the story arc, because, yes, you'll explore a theme, but it's not always exploring in the same way as your, you know, your classic tale. But I do think there is a space. I just think you've got to sell it really, really well.
Zoe 19:42
Yeah.
Finola 19:42
It's a bit of a harder sell, but I'm really pro mixing up the genre, making it a bit different, like gig theater, I think is brilliant. Yeah, some of the best things I've seen. I remember seeing a show called electrolyte at the Edinburgh Fringe, produced by wildcard theater company years ago. I still remember it. It still sticks with me, because it was just so, so well done of combining the electronic sound world spoken word on really quite serious themes, handled and tackled well.
Zoe 20:08
I'm not sure gig theater has made it into the US.
Brian 20:11
That was going to be my follow up.
Finola 20:12
So gig theater is it's exactly what it says on the tin. Really, it's a combination of a gig concert, like experience with the show and the production and while telling a story through it. So hybrid performance style that combines live music and storytelling in a theatrical setting. So quite classic ones. At Edinburgh Fringe, you'll see a lot of gig theater. So it might be someone with their guitar for like the whole hour, but they're telling stories through their songs. So it's kind of like you've gone to a gig, but it's a story being told in that way, and the band are the performer. So it's a bit of a funny one as well, because none of it was an actor, musician show. So it's kind of also those, you know, mixing of worlds. It's not like you've got the orchestra as separate and then the performers on stage, everything is as one. So yeah, I'm all for different styles being explored and having the space for them. So again, thinking when you're in the process of, what do I want to do? How do I want it to look like all this stuff, as well being open to explore that rather than thinking it must follow the traditional method of what a musical is, I think can be quite refreshing. It helps you explore it in a different way, and also thinking about your audience. You might reach a completely different audience in the way that you approach it.
Zoe 21:18
It's a little bit of what six was, you know, the way you describe it, it kind of how, how six started, and now it's billed as a musical, but it really isn't.
Finola 21:27
And it's so successful.
Brian 21:28
Okay.
Zoe 21:29
Yeah, it is.
Brian 21:30
That makes sense to me now.
Finola 21:31
But you look at the Spotify following, and you look at the fan base of it, it's enormous. It's massive. And I think they've taken that concept there, and especially with the, you know, the catchiness of those songs, people are so excited to go and hear it live, yeah. So you think about your favorite artist, think about your favorite queen, you might be so excited to go and see them, right? And what I find interesting is, because I think in terms of music future wise, there's going to be such an emphasis on live performance from a commercial perspective as well, right?
Zoe 21:58
Yeah, because you can't sell albums anymore.
Finola 22:00
Well, you struggle to you sell vinyls. Vinyls seem to work. But outside of that, I think it's a lot trickier. So I do see with the live I'm very curious to see how much theater starts playing a role within you know, your actual music world as well, and the lines blurring.
Zoe 22:15
That's a really good point. Okay, let's try and get back on track to the to the Nun of it.
Brian 22:20
No, no, it's all good. We live for tangents.
Zoe 22:23
Okay, can you talk about what inspired the whole show and how because it got accepted? That's the thing is, you said you submitted it, thinking, meh, and it got chosen. So can you talk about that?
Finola 22:34
I wish I still had my email that I sent in as part of it. I don't have access on my uni email, but I wish I still had it to see it and see what, what did I actually send in? I think it was something along the lines of, here is a couple of songs I want to explore a world through a sound cycle of 1967 set in a convent school, exploring themes of that time, including things such as Irish immigration and the experience of being in that world. I mean, my personal background, I'm half Irish. My mum's side of the family moved over from Ireland in the kind of 50s, and I also went to kind of a Catholic Primary School. My mom went to a Catholic boarding convent school back in, kind of late 60s, 70s. So there was definitely an impact here of family influence. And Rosie was on the panel that decided for the shows and they were going to support the show. And so Rosie saw it, and was like, That's a great idea. I'm really interested in that Rosie's family, also her grandma came over from Ireland, so quite similar familial stories coming in. And I think both of us had such a connection to this world and this piece that we wanted to explore it. So that's where those initial kind of, Okay, we're gonna do this thoughts came from. And with that, we developed it as this kind of one hour piece. And we kind of at the time, we were like, Okay, let's develop it. Let's do it. Let's put it on. And we didn't think really well, I didn't that point. I was like, Whoa, we did it. Yay. And then people came up to us at the end of the show, and they're like, you cannot let this die. Oh, damn. And I was like, oh, okay, okay. They were like, this, like, they see a life for this. You, this isn't the end of this. And I think that for us was quite like, oh, because it's quite hard when you're in your own insular bubble of like, you've created this you've created this work. You've got your four performers. We actually had a band at that stage as well, and we had, like, more members of our creative team. And we, at that time, it wasn't like, this is definitely going to be something we're going to do five years on. We never, I don't think would have seen that. But lo and behold, you know, we with that, it was quite like an impetus of like, okay, or like a push to say there's something in this that people see and people feel like we should keep exploring it, and that feels like a confirmation that there is more for us to explore in this piece. And so essentially, we then did another version of it in the February afterwards, and developed it, added some more songs in. So I went away and wrote some more songs, and Rosie fully came on. A bit more to support with the script and fleshing out, because the first version was mostly just me writing it. We updated it. We put a second running on backup at university, because we had, we still had access to put it on there. So from a financial position, it's, it's really fortunate to do that. And then the plan, we'd submitted it for fringe funding. Was it fringe funding at that point? No, I think we were thinking, okay, maybe fringe and maybe we'd put an application in. And I'm gonna say this was the year 2020, you start brainstorm work. What happened? Well, Zoe's actually written a whole song about that. Song aboutit so, you can hear that one, but yeah. So basically, we had these intentions, these plans. We'd applied for this grant. We were one of the finalists for it. We didn't get it, but it was great to kind of again, more exposure for the show. And then, of course, 2020 hit. And so with that, was like, Okay, everybody, things were on hold. Let's stop like we had to basically say, Okay, put on hold our place. Okay for Edinburgh. So then during lockdown, and I think this is also something that helps us get through that time as well. Again, the first period of lockdown, no one knew what was happening, so that the pandemic itself, no one really knew everything was uncertain. And then as time went on, I remember Rosie and I connected. Just had a chat and a check in. And both of us had this we really missed being creative moment, and that spurred us to be like, okay, so what do we do about it?
Brian 25:38
What happened?
Zoe 26:32
Oh, good.
Finola 26:33
You know, it's all well and good saying that. And then from that, we thought, okay, well, actually, at this point there was hope. The world was opening back up again, and it was again, Rosie is absolutely amazing. I'm so lucky to have the team around. Because she was kind of like, let's try take it to fringe. How do you feel about that? And And with that, was like, Okay, if we're going to do that, what are certain things we can do? So that's why we recorded this live album on Spotify, the sister session, one sister sessions, because that really helped us a as you've seen with these big musicals, if they have that Spotify following, if they have, you know, people can access songs also. It's so useful for demos, when you're sending your show, actually having it on Spotify, having a link that you can directly send. Oh, by the way, this is what one of the songs sounds like. Oh, that's interesting. It's so helpful because for grant applications, for whatever we were sending, it was like, here's the deck, and here are links to X, Y and Z. It exists already, right? It's not something that's just a concept or an idea,
Zoe 27:30
Yeah.
Finola 27:30
So that was really helpful piece of work. Let's say that we did and we still use it today. Oh, right. We still use it in future projects. We have those reference points we can add in.
Music 27:40
When I speak to the Lord, he listens well, he listens well me, but the others cry of another side that I don't see. I'm completed in these ones that keep on pushing down on me. But when I close my eyes, I hear His voice, I know he has found me. Well, stop believing when I've been grieving. And this book has been so healing. Our love is feeling and the words of hope and love.
Zoe 28:18
Can you tell me about that EP? You recorded that yourself.
Finola 28:22
We did it in two days in a church we'd never met before. Well, no, I knew all the people individually, but all coming together, I think was the first rehearsal we had. So we had two days to record 12 songs, I think it's 12, I can't remember, and and then Film, film them as well. So it was actually very lucky, because the time that we did, it was times where certain members of the group were building up their portfolios, so they were able to use this for each individual so going forward, which is great. It doesn't always happen, because from a financial perspective as well, we didn't have masses to give, like, if people needed it, we needed to check in. Okay, is that something we can afford? But at that point it was like, we don't actually have any money behind creating this as such. So it's more people. Do people want to do it? Do they want to be part of this? And we were able to use the church, I'm pretty sure, like for free. My friend was using it as their portfolio to build up their portfolio, and then now they're doing videos all over nice. And so it was a very lucky thing to have. But what I think the value is, and Brussels community creatives is, what's it called?
Zoe 29:31
Brussels musical creatives.
Finola 29:31
That Brussels musical creatives is a great example of the importance of community, right?
Zoe 29:34
Yes.
Finola 29:35
Like that, and relying on your community, and above all, being really transparent and open. And I think just being upfront with people being like, I can give you this, or I can't give you this, rather than doing it 5, 6,7, 8, whatever, months down the line, always do it from the upfront, be honest. Because if people are saying that's great, all the best, I can't commit to that fair enough. Like, absolutely fair enough. And I think that also comes back into what you were saying at the beginning. Saying, like, this is not my full time job. So for people where it is their full time jobs, it's the acceptance that they might not be able to take on a project or be part of something if it's doesn't make sense for them. It's a slightly different world.
Zoe 30:11
Yeah
Finola 30:12
And it's accepting that, and it could just be exploring, okay, if there was involvement, what would that look like, having conversations and being open to it? Because you might be okay, yeah, maybe that is something we might have scope for. If we get a grant, then we could get you in those kinds of things, but just communication, honesty and transparency are really important.
Brian 30:28
Yeah.
Zoe 30:28
Yeah, that's that's something that you and I have discussed a lot over the years, that we've been involved -the whole two years- that we've been involved with Knocked.
Finola 30:38
Yeah, exactly. And yet, just to kind of cap off the Nun of it thing. So we took it to Fringe afterwards. So we, well, build up funding. We had a Go Fund Me page. It's really expensive putting on shows, so you do kind of look, can people support you? We did, like a fundraising concert in London. So I came over. I was living in Brussels at the time, came over and did some songs. I played a wedding. And all the funds that I got paid to perform at this wedding I put directly into the funds for the show. I think some of us also gave some of our own money as well. So like personal money, because again, I was in a privileged position that I did have some of that income I could put to one side to be able to put into it. And then other things. It was just reaching out, thinking of people who might be able to support it, particularly groups that might it might be really relevant to, and just writing to them, and just finding out who are people who are frequently donating to theater or supporting shows, and it's just a lot of grafting, like having a good producing team, or anyone who's willing to send a couple of emails, you never know, and again, be having a really, really good deck that's so important. So your set of slides that you're sending to people that look professional set you apart. Look professional. Have a consistent style, a consistent look and feel that is in line with the piece, that is in line with what you're trying to say to people. And then also, if you're asking people for whatever it might be, what is your why is it just because I want to put a show on, because if it is like, some people might be like, cool, that's great. I want to support you. But if it's more of like a why this is why the show needs to go on? That's a very different that's a very different thing, and that, to an extent, you shouldn't be making it unless there is that really clear, why? Because it's so much investment. Yeah, that for you to ask other people to support it. I think it makes it's better if you've got that clear why. Of like, this is the reason I think this show should be shown. This is why it's important right now.
Zoe 32:29
What was your why for Nun of it?
Finola 32:30
Good question. I think the why for none of it. So none of it is set in 1967 which is quite a big year in the UK, or in England in particular. So it's the year that abortion was legalized, okay? It's the year that homosexuality was decriminalized, only for men, because it didn't exist for women and in but it was decriminalized, but there was still parameters around it. I think it's you had to be both men consenting over the age of 21 still, again, it wasn't the world we live in today, but it was a shift when it came to policy and just the world that it was in when you look at this contrast of the Catholic world versus a world which was like the rebellion world or the world of revolution happening at the same time. And so it was just looking at parallels as well to you know, today, where you have a world which is looking to, you know, either revolution from a like a change, looking to liberate, explore, allow people to be authentically who they are, versus maybe a push back on that.
Zoe 33:34
It feels like what you're saying, though, is the moment it set in was having sort of an impact on the moment we were in?
Finola 33:41
Yeah, I think it's the moment. It's the kind of timeframe that it's set in, and the themes that it explores. There's still relevancy to today. Yes, I think when you look and one of the key themes that comes out of that is the value and the importance of friendship and support and community. And I think those are three very strong and powerful things that today, more than ever, we have to remember and go back to and keep in our minds, with all the events that are happening around the world, you know, if you compare it to now, and you look at, for example, women's rights, women's autonomy over their bodies, that was a huge market point from a policy perspective, and now we're still having similar debates. So it just, it feels like, you know, there's a big time chunk, but we've gone X amount of years into the future, and these things go round, so certain points around that echoed What the Why was. But I think everyone has their own why, right, like this could be for us. This is why we want this show to to be out there. The importance of those themes and how they they come into the today, but equally, the way you want people to feel as they go out, it's kind of looking back and the reminder and the importance, and I think friendships are so important. I think it's a love that's not as explored in the musical theater landscape as much. I think romantic love is very, very explored. But I would say friendship love is not that it's more important that are important in different ways, but especially as we get older, in adulthood, you realize the importance of it, I would say,
Zoe 35:03
Yeah,
Finola 35:03
whereas you might when you were younger as a kid, you just just accept it, because it's like that. So yeah, we did the Fringe run. We learned a lot from that, and then we put it on for a two week run in London following that.
Zoe 35:13
Did you rewrite it at all?
Finola 35:14
Yep, we did. So again, it went through several rewrites each one, and I think once we got to that final one of the London it was the most complete version of it that had existed. And we were very lucky to have that luxury of those various stages of development to get to that point. And I do think there's benefit to that. It's having the space to step away from something for a while and then come back to it with fresh minds, getting other people to look at it as well was really, really useful. So, you know, looking at the script, have you got any ideas, any thoughts? And Rosie and I, when we were doing script rewrites, it would be like a Google Doc, but we'd both go in and we'd have these long zoom calls. Because I lived in Brussels during this kind of period, we'd have these long zoom calls where I would go through certain bits of the script or comments clarifying it. I'd share with her new versions of the song I'd written, and we could be so honest with each other. And I think when it comes to having a writing partner, you have to have that. And actually, we met up just the other week, the three of us, so Fran, Rosie and myself. Fran is our producer, and we spent an hour and a half just chatting and catching up. And I think if you don't have that foundational friendship there, not that it has to be a pure friendship, right? It can be a professional relationship, but you have to, I feel, build an environment in which you can be totally honest with each other and not worry about hurting the other person's feelings.
Brian 36:29
That trust is so important,
Zoe 36:31
yeah,
Finola 36:31
So important and so hard. You can't have that with with everyone, right? But I think it's collectively knowing we want the best, a for each other and B, we've got this common goal. And thirdly, we actually care about each other. And I think when you can show that in the way that you show up for each other, but also you gel as a group, it means that when you're sharing and you're exploring these things, and because there'll be things that I've written, that I've got, I remember I wrote one of the kind of musical pieces, and Rosie was like, This sounds. It sounds a bit Halloweeny, I'm really not sure. But just the ability to say that. And I was like, yeah, do you know what for? Yeah, yeah. And it's just, you know? Whereas I could have been like, what, this is the best thing I've ever written, but I was like, You know what? She's coming from a place where she's read this. She knows the concept, she knows the idea, and she can see how it would work on the stage, right? So thinking, where each of your brain strengths are to see it and, yeah, just being able to do it and enjoy it. It's got to be there's going to be hard bits of it, but if it's not an enjoyable, full, full, full length process, especially when you're in the position of, this is your free time.
Zoe 37:33
yeah,
Finola 37:33
you have to question, what's the real incentive for me to keep doing this? Because if you're growing in it, and that's great, but I think you have to a for that. You're, you're learning and you're, you're experiencing it through that, and that's why working with other people is brilliant. But B, if it just starts feeling very, very taxing, sometimes you just need to step away. Just need a little break from it, and just talking to your other person saying, this is where my head's at. This is how I'm feeling. How are you feeling? And they might be feeling the exact same, right, for sure, but yeah, checking in, I think it's not an easy thing to do, and you're quite vulnerable when you are putting your ideas out there. So yeah, supportive communities are important.
Brian 38:10
I'd say, from my experience too, though, there's nothing better though, than the feeling when you realize you're both on the same wavelength in the room working on something, and it's like, oh my god, we're both on the same path and doing that too. So it's kind of like extreme highs and lows in that way too,
Finola 38:22
definitely, yeah,
Music 38:23
I have tried so many times, even swallowing my pride, hoping deep down that you would ask me how I'm doing too, how I'm doing too, but that's not you. No, that's not you. I've tried not to let it show how I hope that you know how I feel lost in this one side conversation. I'm running out of patience, and I'm trying to grow weary
Speaker 1 39:28
But I'm a ghost no you can't see me
Zoe 39:34
Hong long did, did it take you? Because I having worked with you, I know how fast you work. How long did it take you to get the first show up?
Finola 39:41
So the first show I'd already written, I think maybe about five of the songs in it, five or six, potentially, and some I'd rewritten previously and then put into it so that that say there's different stages of it, because there's the kind of putting the songs together, which is stage one, which I'd been doing gradually over the course of a few months of getting the refining, but I'd written some of these songs years and years and years in advance, right? And it'd just been like, Ah, this is a song I want to pull in and bring into this piece. And then I had my final exam, I went out, and I had a fun night. And then the next day, at 9am I was in the music room writing scores for the week before I had to leave. So I basically had a deadline of like, I have to make sure every single thing is finished before I go. And at that point, I think I still had at least a couple of songs I had to really get done. So that process probably took a couple of months in and out. Again. I was student studying at the time. So it was like, in the evenings, I would block out just hours. I was like, tonight, I need to write this. And what was quite hard is I was writing it directly into Sibelius, the music scoring platform for some of the songs. So I'd kind of play around a little bit with chords in the song, but because, again, it's great if I'm just like, Yeah, this is a song, but I had to give it to the four performers in it, and the band, yeah. So I had to have all of that ready at this point. It was more of just a song cycle. So it was all about the music. There wasn't really that much around it, the script, it was kind of on this, like, I'd say, continuous couple of months basis that we'd do it. The big thing that really helped us in the process throughout is having really clear working backwards deadlines. Yeah, you're putting it on at this date, you have to have it ready by this date. And if you're like, okay, that means we've got to have X and Y done so we can have time to a, send it to other people. B, review it ourselves, and C, make changes before you've then got the final date. So always building in that time. And then I think, for when you're doing it within a professional sort of group as well, coming in and performing, there's then another level, because you can't mess around with deadlines. It's contractually written in that they're going to get the material for this amount of time, so it ups the ante even more. But in total, like, it's really hard to give a really quantifiable response, because they were all quite like mad periods.
Zoe 41:53
But yeah, that's what it sounds like, and that's my experience of writing with you. At the very least, is, you know, we booked a theater. If we don't put the show on, we lose money. So we're putting the show on, and therefore by this time, we need to lock the script, and we need and by this time, we need to have all of the songs written and ready for the performers to learn.
Finola 42:12
I like it that way, because that's my personal way, right? It's I prefer it because I'm like, this is actually going to happen, yeah, this whatever version is going to go on, and it's balancing the financial commitment and, you know, and also the accepting that the first time you put it on is the first time you put it on. It might not be this perfect version, like, often you look at the big, big shows, right? Rarely, occasionally, there it is. But often they either start in more regional theaters, or they start on a smaller scale, and then they have, you know, we're gonna do it like at that. And so I think there is merit of factoring in that first showing you've got, there might be another version that comes after it. Yeah, that makes sense.
Zoe 42:48
Do you want to talk about Knocked a little bit? Because one of the things that I find interesting is, you come from the UK. You had your show at Fringe, and then while we were working on knocked, you were putting it on in London, which is mad. What was for you the impetus to get involved with theater in Brussels, of all places? I know that's where you lived, but you know how you still had access to London? You still had access to the UK. What was the impetus for you to do it in Brussels?
Finola 43:15
I missed it.
Zoe 43:16
Oh, that's a beautiful answer.
Brian 43:17
I love that.
Finola 43:18
I missed crazing with other people, right? I think I because I spent a lot of the none of it, stuff I'd had to do over zoom calls, and it's so different being as you've probably just, you know, you've experienced yourselves having met up again and like, oh wow, when you're in person with someone, it's great. And you can do a lot via zoom, don't get me wrong, but actually being in a room, and I think you can afford yourself a little bit more fun and freedom. Sometimes when you're in the room with someone, there's those interactions that you don't just get. It's you're going outside, you're getting lunch together, you're doing all these little things together, which builds that environment. So I think partly from a human level, that's why. Secondly, the Brussels environment is very interesting. Again, thinking that commercial lens, there wasn't an original musical theater existence, I would say. But there was also a lot of English language speakers in the city, and there was appetite, you could see, because the amateur dramatic societies in Brussels are huge, yeah. So yeah, I think because I saw that there was more of an audience there and then that we found other people that were interested in doing it. And I was like, well, it's quite nice for the brain to do a little, you know, challenging thing. I'd never worked with this many collaborators before, so having that different opportunity seemed quite interesting. And I would say it's a muscle to use, and I'm not, I'll be totally honest, like I'm not a trained composer who spent years and years and years and years in music school learning how to compose. I probably come from quite a more let's say I'll write a song. I might write it into garage band from what comes from my mind, rather than thinking of the technical, structural, traditional musical theater approach to doing it. I think there are different approaches of it. I think I've learned through this process that sometimes I need to go back to those more traditional elements to make sure it makes sense, right? That it's getting back to the core of the story, and that song should only exist if there is a total need for that song to exist, right? Yes, within the story. And that is a learning that I've had to get to. But through working with other people, and Zoe, you'd come from, you know, doing a lesson, and you'd be like, Oh, this is what we learned, bringing that into the class. And I was like, like, that's not something I've ever really fully considered in writing, right? But it's these things that you know, the maybe more structured pathway theory focused pathway, gives you those tools. And I think it's a combination of that with your own authentic style, is where it's important, and it's finding the line. So I think for me, I'm like, aware, okay, there's actually a lot I don't know, and I will be the first to admit that, and that's okay. I'm open to learning it, and I want to bring in my own style as I continue to explore right?
Zoe 45:50
Yeah, I remember this conversation. I remember the early conversations when we started writing the music, and we were still doing a song cycle at that point. So, you know,
Finola 45:58
Tee Hee what is she like?
Brian 46:01
Little did we know
Finola 46:02
Oh she knew. She obviously knew. But here we go.
Brian 46:06
It's all Zoe is fault.
Finola 46:09
Yeah, we'll blame it on Zoe.
Zoe 46:10
But yeah, for me, on a very personal level, it helped me solidify a lot of the things that I was learning in my course and and also applying it to something that mattered outside of the course, because it was something that was going to happen, yeah, and the collaboration aspect is everything in this it was such fun writing with people like we had a full day of just writing songs together, and that was the most fun I've ever.
Finola 46:35
And it should be right. It should be fun. It comes back to that whole thing of you should be open to the experimentation, the exploring, and with that, you have to kill your darlings. And there's a reason that exists, because you should give your this space to explore and experiment and have fun with it. And then there's going to be a time where you have to maybe cull, or you have to say, make those hard decisions. Of, does this actually make sense? Is it needed for the story? Is it needed for the audience's experience of the light and, you know, the light and dark.
Zoe 47:05
That's kind of where -I know that's not strict, strictly speaking, that's not the role of director- but because you directed the first run, you had a very keen eye on, okay, this song is now too long, and we need to cut it in half, or, you know, we need to just take that song and drop it, which we didn't, because that was, you know, the song that basically made the show fun.
Finola 47:26
I know this is a controversial song where I said we should, and it actually ended up being the most popular song in the entire show, but you know what? And that's why sometimes you don't make the right initial call. And actually, if you believe in something, that it should stay in there, fight for it, and that's what you all did, and absolutely kudos and fair play to you, because it resulted in it staying in
Zoe 47:47
Yeah.
Finola 47:47
So you've got to trust your own conviction sometimes and just be open to hearing other people.
Brian 47:52
And there's so many famous instances of that happening too. The most famous one I can think of is Disney wanted to cut part of your world from The Little Mermaid, you know, because it was,
Finola 48:00
Oh, yep, exactly.
Brian 48:01
And people fought back. And now it's the song from The Little Mermaid. Yeah, is it worth getting the babysitter for the night?
Finola 48:05
100% I totally agree. And I think it's it was the figuring it all out together. And we were very lucky of having everyone for this kind of collective want, of making it a good show, yeah, and just some other things. And I think this is my learnings as well from the previous one is always thinking, Okay, what is the audience experiencing right now? If I was going to sit down and watch this show, what's their experience? How long have they been sat down? What's the journey we've taken them from, how clear is it? How clear is the story? We've seen it 100 times, so we get it. And I do think there's sometimes merit of bringing someone in at a certain stage and being like, does this all make sense? And they'll be like, I have no idea what's going on, and if that's the case, that's going to happen 100 times over, right? Right? That's the question. Did I come away from it like, ah, do you know what I experienced something? It doesn't have to be the funniest thing, the most emotional thing you've seen. But was that, like, a human experience that I'm really keen or happy that I went and had?
Zoe 49:00
Yeah.
Finola 49:00
That's what I think it could be, right? Because there's no set thing of this is what a musical must do. But I think it's that sharing of a human emotion and experience that you sit in there, and by the end of it, you've gone through that experience with those people, and it's made you feel something, whatever that feeling is, yeah? But for me, if you can create that world, that's pretty amazing, powerful thing to have done, for sure.
Zoe 49:23
Yeah, for sure. Okay, before we move on to our favorite game, what's next for you? What are you working on now?
Finola 49:29
So I've not done loads of theater recently because I'm doing more music focused, because music is kind of the original, the original thing for me.
Zoe 49:37
So now you're back in theater world. You're not doing theater,
Finola 49:41
Yeah! But I maybe after this call, I'll go away and write something going on.
Brian 49:45
Your next song cycle is actually a musical. You're welcome. You should probably start with the story first.
Finola 49:50
You've saved me six months.
Brian 49:52
You know what are friends for?
Finola 49:53
Exactly, perfect. So to stick with, stick away from the story for the moment. Well, I've set up here in London a Disco soul esque band. So we're writing original music, and it's all multilingual. So that's kind of the ethos and the style, and the plan is to do some gigs as we come up, and take those lessons learned as well when it comes to, as I mentioned before, the performance and the style and the experience, I think at the moment, like there's a lot of Bleak things happening in the world. And I think we all are really yearning for connection. We're yearning for an experience that we can step away and just feel part of some sort of community and back to those core human things, right? You look back through 1000s of years of history, music, song, dance, you name it, they're at the root of a lot of you know, these cultural connections. So I do think there's a yearning to go back to that which is natural as humans, so creating that environment. And I think you can do that with musicals. You can do it with music and lots of things. Is, is, yeah, exciting, yeah. This is the one thing I said to Brian before we did this, because Brian has had all of the songs that I wrote for Knocked and I said Brian, Finola is the person I wrote Handle with care, with which is the big disco number in that show. And it was so much fun
Music 51:06
To say different in so many ways, yet somehow everything clicks into place. Just remember, right there on the box, care,
Zoe 51:24
So I'm really looking forward to hearing what you what you're doing with this, with this group, because that's going to be a banger for sure.
Finola 51:35
Oh, thank you, Zoe. I'm very excited. It's really fun. And it's the it's a collaborative bit as well, which is being in the room with people and just playing around. I think play is really important,
Zoe 51:44
But musicians as well, isn't it? I feel like, for well, at least my experience of theater is you've always got one person who kind of takes the lead on music and then someone else who takes the lead on their lyrics. But being in the band is so different because you have musical ideas coming, you know, from every side of the room.
Finola 52:02
Yeah, and it's balancing those and the personalities. But again, goes back having a good fit, having a nice group and having openness to ideas, yeah, creates such an important space, I think, in this world. And just yeah, having a routine of it, maybe that would be the other thing I'd say. So every Monday, I have my rehearsal, and it's part of my routine. And I think if I was to write again, another show, I would have a set day that would be my writing day. Yeah, I would have something that was consistent.
Zoe 52:30
I'm totally stealing that idea.
Finola 52:33
100% but,
Brian 52:34
And showing up no matter what, even if you don't write any, you know, don't write nothing comes it's the habit,
Finola 52:37
100% even for rehearsal, right? If we can't, if some half the group can't make it, we're doing the rehearsal. It's still happening, because it's that expectation. The minute you start being like, oh, okay, people can't make it, we'll not do it. You know, like it's having that, that set thing. We do have a week off every now and again, but it's agreed upon, and it's rather than like, Oh, whatever. I think it sets a precedent. And it also, I think, when you're doing co writing, there's that kind of reliance on each other, right? And you want to show up for each other in that way as well. And then with that, have, like, your aim you're working towards. So there's a submission date for this project or grant or whatever, or this songwriting competition, which might be a really nice entry into it. You don't have your whole show, but you've just got this one song, yeah? And they do exist, right?
Zoe 53:21
Yeah, they do.
Finola 53:21
Or you just want to share your song. I'm going to put this song out at this day on the platforms, whatever, and when you have that in place, put it in your calendar, send it to someone else, say I'm doing this. There's so much more on like you as an expectation to do it for me as a person, that really helps, because if I feel like there's a level of reliance that someone else has on it and someone else has the buy in or, like, it's like, I'm expecting you to do this. I'm like, classic people pleaser. Wants to do it.
Zoe 53:48
Yep, you've gotta, you've gotta use it.
Finola 53:50
Yeah, it can be good within reason.
Brian 53:51
And if you know how to use it.
Finola 53:53
Yeah.
Zoe 53:53
Was there anything that you wanted to say that you didn't get to Fin?
Finola 53:56
I think I'd just say, don't be afraid to start small. Don't be afraid to just put something on in your local community theater. Work with the local am drama groups as well. To start, I think it's a skill that takes time, and I wouldn't say I'm anywhere near you know, the accomplished superstars in this world, because it's a skill that takes time, and you learn with each experience. Yeah, and I'm thinking for future shows, for example, maybe I'll put something on in my local village, right?
Zoe 54:23
Oh, in Reading?
Finola 54:23
Something on that scale, that's about that area that people have buy in. And I think it's if you have the scope and the space to do it. It doesn't always have to be the big, huge productions. Sometimes there's beauty in you're making something for this group that you want them to experience. So, yeah, don't be afraid of starting small if it means that you can actually get something on. Something on because I think otherwise, it's very easy to be ah, I want to do this, but on such a scale, yeah, and it helps having at least one or two things you've tried out, you've experienced at the smaller scale.
Zoe 54:53
Yeah, I think Brian can totally agree to that as well.
Brian 54:54
Oh, yeah,
Zoe 54:54
Brian put on a show. When we were doing Knocked Brian was putting on his first show at, wait, it wasn't your school, Brian?
Brian 54:55
it wasn't the school I teach at. It was the school I went to,
Zoe 54:55
Right.
Brian 54:55
That's what the community theater had rented out, was that auditorium.
Finola 54:59
How'd it go?
Brian 55:01
It went well. It went well. It was a very quick process, talking about deadlines. So that project I was brought on at the end of June, and we went up the first weekend of December. So full score, full orchestration, everything.
Zoe 55:21
Yeah, they had, they had a real band. Yeah, we did tapes. They did, they did the real deal.
Brian 55:26
Yep, we had a six person pit, wow, including me playing and conducting. So I was doing three keys and then rhythm section. It's nuts. Yeah, it was fun. Yeah, It's bonkers to do shows in that amount of time. I don't recommend it, but I also do recommend it at the same
Zoe 55:39
Yeah, because at least you're doing it.
Finola 55:41
Yeah, you learn a lot.
Brian 55:41
Do I want to do it again? Not really. I'd like a little more runway.
Finola 55:45
Yeah, and trusting musicians. That's maybe another thing I'd add. Like, I don't play all those instruments, so just being like, this is a framework. Give thoughts, get ideas, see what people who do play those instruments think, and what they can add to it. And I think being open to other people's little bits of magic.
Brian 56:00
Definitely. That happened a lot with my books. I hired all good buddies of mine in my area, and they added a ton of stuff to the book that I'm just like, oh, man, that's way better.
Finola 56:10
Yeah, and it's great. It's having those extra, extra voices and extra thoughts, yeah, I don't think you have to do it on your own. Would be my big my big takeaway, it's all about collaboration and just creating an environment people want to collaborate in as well, right? That's really important, and that's why relationships are so key.
Brian 56:31
90% of the gig is the hang 100%
Finola 56:31
Yeah.
Zoe 56:31
All right, Finn, I didn't prepare you for this, but on this podcast, we play a game at the end of every episode, and Brian came up with it, so as always, I'll let him explain what the game is.
Finola 56:37
All right, so the game is called lyric or lie. So we're each going to take turns reading lyric from a show, and some will be a true lyric from the show, and some will be a lie. All right, so make sure you pay attention, because it does get tricky, and I'm known to be devious.
Zoe 56:52
He is, full warning. And as always, if you can recognize the show and the writer, you get bonus points. Brian, do you want to start us off.
Brian 57:00
All right? You ready? Here's your first one. Rivers belong where they can ramble. Eagles belong where they can soar. I've got to be where my spirit can run free.
Finola 57:11
I wonder I would go lyric. I feel like
Brian 57:14
It is a lie. It's a lie, a lie.
Finola 57:17
It's giving kind of one of those old timey classic, yeah. Okay,
Brian 57:21
So I cut out the last line from this verse because it would have given away the song, because it's corner of the sky from Pippin. So the last line would be, gotta find my corner of the sky, and I didn't want to give it away too much. So the lyric I read was, eagles belong where they can soar. The actual lyric is, eagles belong where they can fly. Okay, so it's rivers belong where they can ramble. Eagles belong where they can fly. I've got to be where my spirit can run free. Gotta find my corner of the sky.
Finola 57:47
Oh, I see. So it's actually just, like a tiny word change.
Brian 57:50
Yeah, this is where the lie is.
Finola 57:52
Gotcha
Brian 57:52
that's, that's where I'm being, like,
Finola 57:53
completely invented. Okay, got t.
Zoe 57:55
Yeah, it will usually be just a tiny words change. Also, if you cut out the rhyme from it that that makes it that much harder.
Brian 58:03
Well, yeah, the rhyme, I wasn't even thinking about the rhyme. I just didn't want to say corner of the sky, because that gives away the song. Oh, I see. It's like, you know? Oh, here's a song from fan of the opera, and the line is the music of the night. Okay, cool. It's actually the music of the evening. That's what that was, my thought. But for those who don't know Pippin Steven Schwartz, check it out.
Zoe 58:20
Okay, my turn from the table in the corner, they could see a world reborn, and they rose with voices ringing. I can hear them now. I can see you hesitating. You know this,
Finola 58:31
I feel like I do, but I don't want to get it wrong, like, massively, massively wrong and be shunned.
Brian 58:37
You do get a reread, if you'd like to hear it again.
Finola 58:39
Yes, I'm just getting like a melody in my head, but I don't know if I'm inventing this melody from a differently, different song. Can I hear it one more time? Please?
Zoe 58:48
Yes, of course. From the table in the corner, they could see a world reborn, and they rose with voices ringing. I can hear them now.
Finola 58:55
Is it missing a word?
Zoe 58:57
It is not. I mean, it's missing a whole song, but
Finola 59:01
I'm gonna go lyric.
Zoe 59:03
Yes, it is a lyric. It's empty chairs at empty table from Les Mis.
Finola 59:07
Yes, yes, okay, that is exactly what I thought it was. I was scared to say it because, like, this is such a well known music like, get this wrong.
Zoe 59:16
No, if it makes you feel better, I fully missed the Phantom lyric that Brian set me up with.
Finola 59:23
Do you know which word it was that made me think it was Les Mis reborn, because it's that bit, isn't it?
Zoe 59:28
Yeah, it is
Finola 59:28
Nice. That's really don't know if anyone understood why. Is just
Zoe 59:31
No, you're good. You'll know. I love empty chairs, empty tables. It's a great song. But if you follow our song, reading teacher Brett Boles on social media. He posted a thing recently of you know, lyrics that also fit with other songs. And now I can't ever unhear this. So empty chairs at empty tables fits with the Muppet Show theme song. There's a grief that can't be spoken. There's a grief that was on and on. Empty chairs at empty tables, and my friends are dead and gone like I can't not hear that now, whenever I hear it,
Finola 1:00:00
Wow
Brian 1:00:03
made empty chairs better and ruined it at the same time, I think,
Finola 1:00:06
I don't think we've seen a Muppets Les Mis, but, you know, it's time.
Brian 1:00:11
Yeah, I don't think there's been a muppet Les Mis, but that would be a great combo. All right. You ready for another one? Go on. All right. I've come so far for her, the finest caviar for her, everything I own, every party thrown, all the nights alone for her.
Zoe 1:00:27
I can't even
Finola 1:00:29
Do you know it?
Zoe 1:00:30
No, I don't,
Finola 1:00:31
all right, I'm gonna say not real or fake.
Brian 1:00:34
It is true. It is a true lyric. It's the song called I've done it all. I think it's, I've done it all for her. It's from The Great Gatsby that's currently running on Broadway. Music by Jason Howland, lyrics by Nathan Tyson.
Finola 1:00:48
I'm really doing well in this quiz. So far.
Zoe 1:00:50
You are though you're okay, you've got one.
Brian 1:00:53
You're up one,
Finola 1:00:54
okay,
Zoe 1:00:56
you have one more than than I ever did. I have to run away, I have to sit and stay. I want to live a life where I'm allowed to say that I'm proud of the way that I strive to live my days.
Finola 1:01:09
Oh, okay, say it all again so I can hum it in my head.
Zoe 1:01:12
I have to run away, I have to sit and stay. I want to live a life where I'm allowed to say that I'm proud of the way that I strive to live my days.
Finola 1:01:23
It's my days from the Notebook. But I don't know what. I don't know if the lyrics are 100%. I think maybe
Zoe 1:01:30
Follow your gut.
Finola 1:01:31
I think, no, I'm gonna go with a fake in there,
Zoe 1:01:33
There is a fake. The ending of this is where I'm allowed to say that I'm proud of the way that I spent my days where I said I strive to live
Finola 1:01:42
Banger.
Zoe 1:01:42
It is a banger, and I'll give you full credits, because you introduced me to this.
Finola 1:01:47
Thanks.
Brian 1:01:47
All right. You ready for another one?
Finola 1:01:49
Go on,
Zoe 1:01:50
last one.
Brian 1:01:50
All right.
Finola 1:01:51
Gotcha,
Brian 1:01:52
Hey old friend, come along for this ride. There's plenty of room, so jump inside. The highway is rocky every now and then, but it's so much better than where I've been. Just keep moving at your own speed. Your heart is all the compass you'll ever need.
Finola 1:02:07
It's lovely. I don't know it. I'm gonna go with fake.
Brian 1:02:10
It's true. It is a real lyric. It's a song from Hairspray called Come so far. Got so far to go. Now. It's not on the theatrical soundtrack. This was a song written for the film,
Finola 1:02:22
But it's not the film,
Brian 1:02:24
it's, it's over the end credits. And then when NBC did hairspray live a few years back, it's the one that Jennifer Hudson and Ariana Grande sang,
Finola 1:02:32
okay,
Brian 1:02:32
but it's a really, kind of, it's a really fun song.
Finola 1:02:35
Sounds like, hairspray is great,
Brian 1:02:35
yeah,
Zoe 1:02:35
hairspray is great.
Brian 1:02:35
It's kind of like a thesis for the show, almost, you know, yeah, but you won't find it on The Broadway Album. It was written for the film, okay? The film.
Finola 1:02:42
Okay, so film soundtrack, yep,
Zoe 1:02:44
interesting. So they wrote the thesis song after the show. I think so, yeah, well, who knows? Maybe they wrote it before and they just reused it, yeah?
Brian 1:02:51
I mean, I'd say you can't stop the beat. It's kind of a thesis for the show too, yeah, but for a film, end credits, summing it up, come so far. Got so far to go, makes sense? It does all right, you've got two.
Zoe 1:02:59
You've got two out of five.
Brian 1:03:01
You won. Congratulations.
Finola 1:03:02
Yay. I won Perfect. Thanks everyone. The honor is all mine.
Zoe 1:03:06
I will say Brian gets trickier every time. There's only one person who managed to outsmart him so far, and that wasn't it,
Brian 1:03:14
and that was episode two. So I'm still warming up here.
Zoe 1:03:17
Okay, Finn, I think it's time we let you go. Thank you so much for doing this. It's been lovely to have you on.
Brian 1:03:22
Thank you.
Finola 1:03:23
Oh, my pleasure. Thank you. Thank you for both for having me on, for sharing, sharing your own experiences as well. And Zoe, we've worked together before, Brian, we've never worked together, but you never know.
Brian 1:03:35
I hope to work with you in the future.
Zoe 1:03:36
Oh That'd be a fun one A Finola, Brian Strohmetz musical.
Finola 1:03:41
And good luck with all your future projects. I look forward to seeing them. and the continuation of as you make a musical
Brian 1:03:50
Thank you.
Zoe 1:03:51
And thank you audience for listening to our show Please subscribe to our feed, whichever you use. We’re in all good ones and probably a few bad ones. I don’t know.
Brian 1:03:59
Everywhere.
Zoe 1:04:00
We are everywhere. That way you never miss an episode. And the you know, if you want to rate and review the show, that’s always helpful for us to get other people to find out about us.
Brian 1:04:10
Definitely, definitely, don’t forget to share.
Brian 1:04:11
We'll be back with our next episode after the holiday break here with an all new episode of us catching up. But until then, if you just can't get enough of us, please find us on Instagram at making a musical pod, and you can follow me for all my musical adventures at Brian Strohmetz music.
Zoe 1:04:30
And we should add to this that we also have a patreon if you'd like to support us at making a musical pod on patreon.com the music for this episode, as ever was written by our lovely Brian Strohmetz. And this episode was produced and edited by me Zoe de York, and I guess we'll catch you on the next one.
Brian 1:04:49
Toodle Oo
